The Dairy Manifesto
Thursday, 8 July 2009
It's not you. It's us.
Why We Don’t Do Dairy
As an aside, celiacs (those with a gluten intolerance) tend to cross-react with dairy, which means consuming dairy can exacerbate their celiac disease. This is primarily because of the similarity in structure between gliadin, a protein constituent of gluten, and casein (milk protein). It has been shown that 1/3 to 1/2 of celiacs also have specific milk protein intolerances.
It is important to note that the dairy-induced inflammatory response is a separate issue from lactose intolerance (which is simply the inability to properly break down the milk sugar). In general, dairy products are bad news for us, regardless of whether we can digest lactose or not. You may not even realize you have an issue with dairy until you give it up for a period, and then reintroduce it. Everyone responds differently, but most of the time the reintroduction of dairy after four or more weeks of being completely dairy-free is not a pleasant experience. Cheese (a concentrated milk protein) is one of the most common food intolerances.
B. Dairy (particularly milk) spikes insulin levels. It is the combination of proteins and sugars (lactose) in dairy that is responsible for this response, and all varieties – skim milk, 1%, 2% and whole milk – are virtually identical in how they affect insulin. When you drink a glass of milk your blood glucose levels go up a little, but insulin increases three or four times what you would expect. That really doesn’t make sense, because you don’t need that much insulin to deal with the glucose in the system.
When too much insulin is present in the system, the body has trouble releasing the energy already stored in fat cells, and thus asks (in the form of hunger pangs) for more food to burn for instant energy. If this dietary pattern continues, fat stores grow while energy levels need continuous “topping-up” with more food. In summary, insulin spikes should be avoided, especially if you’re trying to manage your body composition or perform optimally. (And, of course, we want that.)
C. Dairy (specifically, cheeses), like grains and processed foods, have an acidifying effect on the body. A net acid-producing diet promotes bone de-mineralization (i.e. osteopenia and osteoporosis), and also contributes to the following maladies and illnesses: kidney stones, age-related muscle wasting, hypertension, stroke and asthma. By replacing cheeses, cereal grains, and processed foods with plenty of green vegetables and fruits, the body comes back into acid/base balance (and a more positive calcium balance). Recent research out of Tufts University has shown that a more alkaline diet preserves muscle mass. We like muscle mass.
Questions? Concerns? Want more information? You don’t have to be a 603′er to ask. Post thoughts to comments.
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Dallas-
Ok wait. Alkaline diet calls for alot of things the Paleo Diet doesnt, namely bananas (high glycemimc index), squash and cottage cheese to name a few. Cottage cheese, just before that you said stay away from dairy. That is a dairy product right? or am I missing something…..
Oh and if I go with an alkaline diet I am also eating nightshades, right? And PASTA!! Melissa said stay the F away from these the other day. Im all good with this, really, and see why now some say cottage cheese and other things are ok while doing Paleo and others do not. Whatever, to each is own, you say tomato I say tamato and all that crap….
Heres where I am fuzzy, kind of. As a newcomer to Paleo I am constantly looking for resources to help me be a better caveman and quite frankly alot of alkalizing foods are some of the things I am trying to avoid based off what I read from Cordain, Wolf and well, Melissa’s Blog.
If I am missing the point and confusing Alkalines and Alkaloids just post BOOB when you get the chance on here and I will find a cave somewhere in the White Mtns and feel shame.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
I’m going to jump in to ask you to clarify before Dallas weighs in. Where, exactly, are you reading that an “alkaline diet” should include things like cottage cheese and pasta? Those are both clearly acid-producing foods. Cordain says nothing more than, “By replacing hard cheeses, cereal grains, and processed foods with plenty of green vegetables and fruits, the body comes back into acid/base balance. The Paleo Diet recommends an appropriate balance of acidic and basic (alkaline) foods (i.e., lean meats, fish and seafood, fruits, and vegetables).”
If you’re reading something different elsewhere, post the link.
Also… bananas and squash are perfectly Paleo! They may contain more naturally occurring sugars than other fruits and vegetables, but they are certainly A-OK to eat on even the strictest Paleo diet!
Melissa
I have substituted organic almond milk – any thoughts?
I read somewhere that the body cannot handle dairy after the age of 7, and a good substitute is goat’s milk/cheese/yogurt/etc. Any thoughts on that?
Melissa-
I seem to have read so much stuff in the last month that it is hard to keep track of.
Tracking on the pasta being acid forming so bad example but is a recommended food with in the Alkaline diet, if im not mistaken.
The site I found the other day that made me say what(?) to Dallas’ post was this:
http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html
I wholeheartedly agree with what Dallas said in his post it just seemed that the contrary to some of the things I have seen lately. I am beginning to realize that there are alot of “experts” out there.
I think to some degree I am suffering from info overload and like I said before I may have this confused.
In any event I am down with no dairy as I have never felt better than I have in the last 3 weeks.
Jeff
Ahh even dairy products have also limitation too, too much insulin can cause troubles in releasing energy in the body, this is interesting…..
I have also a blog about dairy products in Knowing Miner It’s also interesting…
I admit that I am a bit behind in the research for my diet as I have been doing for the workout side. Because of that, I haven’t completely understood the concept of taking things out of the diet and then reintroducing them. After reading this post, I am DEFINITELY taking dairy out of my diet. Coming from the Dairy State, this is more of a mental block than anything else. I know it is going to help take my workouts and overall fitness to the next level.
Hey 603,
The dairy part of the Paleo equation is something I’ve always thought about. I agree that milk (whole all the way to skim) should be avoided as it’s insulin response is to be avoided. I think the same goes for yogurt (greek and non-greek alike) and cottage cheese. I still keep heavy whipping cream in my coffee as I don’t think that has the ability to raise insulin since it’s nothing but fat. I use the same rationale for butter and ghee. Cheese I use sparingly, if it’s in a dish I’m not going to turn it away but I don’t snack on mozzarella sticks either. Now when we get to the gut issues, I want to make sure I’m seeing this clearly. After researching and watching Dr. Cordain’s presentation on The Paleo Diet and MS, I understand that dairy cannot seep through the gut without another adgoven (sp?) to latch on to. It (casein protein) usually tags along with the usual suspects wheat (WGA), tomato, or legume lectins. Therefore while I’m sure Paleo man wasn’t about to milk Sally the Cow, looking at this from a biological standpoint where health is the determinant, would you say that things like heavy cream/butter/ghee are to be enjoyed while milk/cheese/yogurt/kefir are your own choice as long as you are already off of wheat/tomatoes/legumes? After watching the video and reading the good work of Dr. Harris at http://www.paleonu.com/ it all seemed to click. Good work guys, hopefully someday I’ll make it up to Tilton.
-Mark
Jeff, don’t run off to the Whites just yet (though there ARE some gorgeoous places there!)… You’re right – there ARE a lot of (self-proclaimed) “experts” out there. And… I’m not one of them. I’ve just learned by reading the work of people much smarter than me. And, you’re right, it can be very confusing when you read what appears to be contradictory information. That being said, maybe I can simplify things a little for you. I think some of your confusion lies is in the difference between alkalinizing foods and an alkalinizing diet . Ultimately, a Paleo diet that is rich in vegetables and fruit (which have an alkalinizing effect on the body) will be a more “alkaline” diet than diets containing a greater amount of acidifying foods like grains, dairy, and large volumes of meat/fish. The concept is not to avoid all foods that are acidifying, but to strike a balance between acidifying and alkalinizing foods so that the net result is slightly alkaline. Make sense? Hope so. What it boils down to is that “Paleo” is about food choices, and an “Alkaline Diet” is more focused on a specific measure of acid/base balance in the body (but potentially including foods like cottage cheese that are not recommended by Paleo folks). My recommendation, then, is to stick with good, healthy food choices as recommended by the actual Paleo diet, and just understand that when you make intelligent food choices, the issue of having an overall acidifying diet is self-correcting, because the veggetables and fruit in your Paleo diet will keep you in a pretty good (alkaline) place. Does that make sense?
Brooks, good call on the almond milk – sort of. It’s a pretty good substitute for milk if you absolutely need something milk-like, but remember, it’s highly processed (and, as a rule, we strive to eat more whole, unprocessed stuff), and it’s likely sweetened (i.e. sugar…). Unsweetened almond milk is available, but that takes all the fun out of it for me
I’ve also read that goat’s milk can be a more tolerable alternative to cow’s milk, but I think that’s mostly in the context of discussing lactose intolerance. Ultimately, goat’s milk is still the mammary secretions of some other mammal. Huh.
Jay, I encourage you to do some reading of your own (start with Loren Cordain’s Paleo stuff, and hit Robb Wolf’s stuff, too), but if you start to get overwhelmed, just back down to the simple concepts of eating more fresh vegetables, cutting out anything processed, and getting some good sources of protein, carbohydrate, and fat throughout the day. It can be as simple or complex as you’re willing to make it, and trust me, more complex isn’t better. Glad you’re on board with us.
Mark, thanks for the great question. You’re right about the heavy cream, butter, and ghee – since it’s all fat, there are none of the milk protein intolerance, lactose intolerance, or insulin-spiking issues. So yes, you get my green light on those foods (with some sort of moderation, of course). However, I still would encourage you to avoid milk/cheese/yogurt/kefir for those other (significant) reasons of MPI, LI, and the profound effect on insulin levels (all of which are independent of casein and other milk proteins crossing through the gut via microperforations). Keep in mind that there are a bunch of different reasons for avoiding the carb and protein consituents of dairy, and not all of them are related to casein “leaking” out from the gut. Hope this makes sense for you. And as far as cheese is concerned, here’s what I do: if a recipe calls for cheese as a primary source of flavor, and you think it’s worth eating despite what you know about the protein constituents of milk, then at least use intensely-flavored cheeses in small quanities to minimize the volume you’re consuming. I’m thinking feta, extra-sharp cheddar, etc. It’s a small but reasonable compromise in my opinion. I’d still consider it as a “cheat” for myself, though. Few and far between, ideally. Hope you can schedule a visit sometime. Drop us an email to set something up. Cheers,
Dallas
I found this nugget the other day that helped clarify the glycemic index issue:
From Dr. Loren Cordain:
“Carbohydrates that cause us to gain weight are typically carbohydrates with a high glycemic load. Although most of you have probably heard of the glycemic index (the ability of a food to acutely raise the blood sugar), many are unfamiliar with the glycemic load, which is simply the glycemic index of a food multiplied by the carbohydrate content in a given amount of the food. The glycemic load of a food is more closely related to the net insulin response over a 24-hr period than is the simple glycemic index. Consequently, it is the glycemic load that may predispose us to obesity and chronic disease.
Although watermelon has a high glycemic index (72) similar to white bread (70), it has a glycemic load (per 100 grams of watermelon) that is only 5.2 compared to a glycemic load in white bread of 34.7. The International Table of Glycemic Indices lists the glycemic index of 11 fruits. The glycemic loads (per 100 grams of food) of these 11 fruits are as follows: bananas 12.1, pineapple 8.2, grapes 7.7, kiwi fruit 7.4, apple 6.0, pear 5.4, watermelon 5.2, orange 5.1, cherries 3.7, peach 3.1, grapefruit 1.9. Consequently one would have to eat 6.7 times as much watermelon as white bread to achieve an equivalent glycemic load. Let’s say you ate 4 slices of white bread (or 100 grams, ~ 1/4 lb). In order to get an equivalent glycemic load, you would have to eat almost 1.5 lbs of watermelon or 4 lbs of grapefruit.
One of the body’s mechanisms used to determine when to stop eating is stomach volume or fullness. Most people would stop eating watermelon after about 3.0 lbs (435 kcal) or say even 6.0 lbs (870 kcal) because their stomach volumes simply could not physically take much more food. Hence, under normal eating conditions, it is difficult or impossible for most people to overeat on fruits alone.”
Dallas, very interesting to see a post that goes beyond the typical “Dairy = Lactose Intolerance” argument.
Would you mind posting some links/sources about the information in your post?
Thanks,
Mehdi
I hate you Byers.
For years we’ve been together, milk and I. Through thick and thin, in all colors, fat percentages, and flavors. Being a little guy with a negative body fat percentage Mark Rippitoe and his “gallon of milk a day” poured fuel on the passionate flames of our lactate union. 2 weeks ago, if you told me I could only have one food for the rest of my life, I would have said whole milk without blinking.
Now lady Byers and her facts are attempting to disrupt what I believed to be a harmonious relationship between myself and milk. I read your 30 day paleo challenge and immediately thought, sounds good, except the milk bit. That’s just crazy talk. They must not have proper cows in New Hampshire. It must have been a typo. She must have meant double the dairy, not cut it out completely. My senses bitch slapped your logic Byers and I moved on with life, milk in hand.
But you’re a persistent one, aren’t you. And you’ve clearly done way more research on the subject than I ever will. Blind faith and old habits can stand up to a lot, but I wouldn’t be a proper trainer if I gaffed off your informed opinion and good intentions. I’m saying I’ll try it Byers. One month, no dairy, just paleo. I’ll tell my one true love that we should see other people.
I’ll do it but I’m going to keep a skeptical chip on my shoulder. A chip named Byers.
(In all seriousness, keep up the charge. Right or wrong? Time will tell, but you’re asking questions and trying alternatives and it takes guts to share that with others.)
Shit,
Didn’t notice that Dallas posted this. I’ll submit the paperwork to have that chip on my shoulder renamed Dallas. Although I live above the Mason Dixon so there’s bound to be some confusion.
All the best, minus milk
JP
Random note, I just got off doing LeanGains of which I was consuming a lot of milk and cottage cheese. I don’t know if I can completely blame those two but since going to low carb Paleo (Robb Wolf CLC stuff) on Tuesday, yeah just two days ago, my pants are definitely looser and I feel worlds better. Anecdotal evidence: Yes, Me with a Smile: Yes, and I’m not usually a cheery person. Also, I’m inspired by the games and a hill climb will be part of my WOD tonight, can’t wait!
4 rounds for time of:
Hill Climb to Parking Lot (it’s behind an excavating site so it’s pretty much sand and rocks, guessing around 100 ft high)
135# Thruster, 10 reps
10 Push-Ups
25 Squats
Descend Hill
JP, I am in this with you. Email me if you need a shoulder to cry on. I loves me some whole milk. Whatever doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, right?
Which articles/books did you read?
Dallas-
Got it. Perfect sense. Thank you!!!
Danni-
This is where I got started….
http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html
From there start digging around. What I found very useful were specific good/bad food lists. Those made it easier when it came time to shop. Even if I was hungry I could grab the list and see wether or not something I was thinking of eating was good or bad.
Hope that helps. But sure not to do to much research as I did. You will find some contradictary info out there so try and keep it as simple as possible and worst case buy Dr Cordains book The Paleo Diet.
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/
You can sign up for a Free newsletter there as well which typically has some good info in it.
Jeff
Danni-
Was looking for this earlier, was and still is very useful to me.
http://altmed.creighton.edu/Paleodiet/Foodlist.html
Jeff
Dallas,
Do you have more information about the link between lupus and dairy? I’ve done some searches but a lot of the results I’ve found have also said to cut out red meat and game meat as well.
Thanks!
Carla
Mehdi and Danni,
I’ve got a running (meaning poorly organized) list of dietary references, many of which deal with dairy-related concerns. I’d be more than happy to email the list to anyone who’s interested. Disclaimer: it’s long, not categorized, and you’ll have to sort through a bunch of science-y stuff, but I’m still glad to share it. Email me at dallas.hartwig@gmail.com and I’ll send it over. Happy learning!
Dallas
Carla, I don’t have any specific published journal articles addressing lupus, but the consensus among immunologists seems to be that dairy and lupus are not a good combo. Do you have a personal interest in that topic? My sister was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (an autoimmune cousin of lupus) about 15 years ago, and she’s done very well on a dairy-free diet. I guess I’ll say to you what I say to almost everyone who asks: “Try it for 30 days.” You stand to gain a lot, and have little (if anything) to lose. Best of luck,
Dallas
Our family has been completely dairy-free for the last ten years, and my children never get the upper respiratory and ear infections all of their dairy-consuming friends seem to get all the time. The almost daily intestinal distress that plagued our youngest son has disappeared completely since we removed dairy from his diet. I can’t say enough how the decision to remove dairy from all of our diets has improved our lives. We relied on soy products for years, and my kids never felt deprived, but I recently discovered a whole new world of delicious ice cream, yogurt, and milk all made from coconut by Turtle Mountain. All of these products are delicious and have the added healthy benefits of coconut oil. I read that they are even coming out with a coconut milk kefir, and I am really looking forward to trying it too.
Dallas,
One of my really good friends has lupus and she keeps it under control by managing her stress levels and eating healthy. However, she eats a lot of dairy!! I think she is up for trying anything for a bit to see how it goes. She has already said that she is going to give it a shot for 30 days. I did find some references saying to stay away from dairy on the internet but didn’t find any specific studies on dairy and lupus.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! I will keep you all posted on my friends results.
Carla
But what about my whey protein powder. It’s always helped to fill in the blanks of my sloppy diet. And it’s so nice to wake up in the morning drink my whey and walk out to the garage ten minutes later to do my wod. Damn it. What do i do?
Dubious. I’ve lived off of a whey/casein blend protein shake for years. Years. Not a couple a week. More like a minimum of 2 a day. The manufacturer is Biotest. The product was formerly called “low carb Grow!” and is now called, “low carb Metabolic Drive”. To suggest that eating alkaline foods leads to chronic acidosis ignores the ability to balance out the diet with other foods. I’m all for having your nutrition dialed in, but considering extreme examples of how the human body is capable of enduring what could be considered downright abuse should put this no cheese/milk/yogurt/fun into perspective. Live a little people. I’m just not seeing milk and milk products as the Great Satan. I liken these types of discussions to the the cycling weenies who obsess about how many grams their pedals weigh.
Ryan, I hear you on using convenient shakes/powders to “fill in the blanks”, but I noticed that you were also candid enough to use the word “sloppy.” I agree, it would be “nice” if everything that was convenient and tasty was also healthy and cheap, but that’s not usually how life works. If you’re open to tweaking your habits, I’ve found that a few scrambled (or poached, or hard-boiled) egg whites are a convenient, easily-digestible pre-workout protein source. (When paired with a little fresh fruit, that allows me a early morning workout without getting too smoked.) I’d make the case, however, that your POST-workout meal is far more important, and I know some (smart) people that even purposely do NOT eat before their AM workout to maximize the uptake of post-workout nutrients. Experiment for yourself. Maybe you end up back where you started, but at least you’ve learned about your body and yourself.
Mike, to clarify: I was not saying that eating alkalinizing foods (or acidifying foods, for that matter) would definitively lead to chronic acidosis, but it is worth making the point that while you certainly could – and should – “balance out” the acidifying effects of your whey/casein blend with a huge volume of veggies and fruit, it’s hard. It’s hard because while most dairy products (and meat, and eggs, and nuts – all good things) are strongly acidifying, most vegetables and fruit are only weakly alkalinizing (when consuming comparable weights), so the sheer volume of vegetables you should be consuming is… large. Which is why we start with “eat more fresh, perishable food – especially vegetables. ” But… the high net renal acid load of dairy products is just one part of the picture. All in all, the dairy discussion is complex and somewhat individual. And if you’ve got something that’s working extremely well for you, I’m certainly not begging you to change that. Best of luck, and thanks for weighing in.
Dallas
What is the problem with tomatoes? This is about the third time I’ve seen this. I think I remember seeing someone on the Zone Chronicals talking about getting some dish with no tomatoes. Is it related to acid, or glycemic index, or something else?
So should babies get grass-fed beef smoothies over breast milk?
In all seriousness, is there a physiological change that occurs from when we’re babies to adults that causes milk and dairy to to have an inflammatory response? Is milk bad for babies too?
Hey Marshall,
I’ll try and jump in here until Dallas can put together a more put together answer. The deal with tomatoes is that they seem to have the same issues of wheat and legumes when we’re talking about auto-immune disorders. In trying to re-hash Dr. Cordain’s presentation on MS, basically the lectins in tomatoes have the same ability to sneak through the gut lining and cause problems. Essentially these proteins (wheat, legumes, tomato) attach themselves to good proteins (think myelin sheath for example) and get through the gut lining with the good protein. Think sneaking some candy into a movie theater, bad analogy but we’ll go with it. You are able to get into the theater because you have a ticket but the box of Junior Mints that you bought at CVS for $1.99 doesn’t. The theater only allows candy that you buy from them. So anyways to wrap this analogy up, think of the staff at the theater as the gut lining, they only let what they approve into see the movie or through the gut lining and into your blood. The candy (bad protein – wheat, tomato, legume, casein in some circumstances) gets sneaked through under the cloak of your ticket (good protein – myelin sheath). Now you have a good protein and a bad protein in your blood, or CVS candy while you watch the movie. The movie staff comes in to check on it’s patrons to make sure everyone is having a good time and they discover your candy (bad protein) and throw you out of the theater with your ticket (good protein) CVS candy (again bad protein). In the body, instead of you excreting the good and bad proteins, the body just carpet bombs to kill both proteins. So now you’re outside the theater with your candy and your ticket and you don’t know if Megatron ends up defeating Optimus Prime. Stick with me, the analogy is almost done. This theater is smart and it identifies you on it’s security camera as an outside candy sneaker and no longer want’s your business. So the next time you try to buy a ticket to a movie, they say get out, we don’t want your business. The same thing happens in your body. As your body continues to carpet bomb the good and bad proteins once in the blood, they begin to build antibodies to both the good and bad proteins. From here, your body will begin to attack both the good and bad protein regardless of whether they come together or alone. As this happens over and over again, your body is no longer able to use the good proteins because they’ve been destroyed by the anti-bodies which in the case of myelin sheath proteins, you now have MS. Along with this you get subtle inflammation among other things. So while tomatoes won’t spike your insulin, they could eventually give you subtle inflammation and increase your chances of developing an auto-immune disorder (take your pick of MS, arthritis, Lupus, Graves, and the list goes on). On a related note, the tomato is part of the nightshade family of veggies along with hot peppers, white potatoes, and eggplant to name a few. If one suffers from constant inflammation, think arthritis, it is advised that they avoid nightshades. Your example from the Zone Chronicles is Eva Claire from Crossfit Boston. I was lucky enough to attend a nutrition seminar put on by her and when she experimented with taking nightshades out of her diet for three weeks, she noticed that her joints no longer popped when she squatted and did all the other amazing olympic movements that she does. That is why you see her picking the tomatoes out of her cobb salad. Sorry for the long response, hopefully it helps. I myself avoid tomatoes now. Dallas/Melissa, please let me know if I fubbed something big. Also, below is the link to the YouTube of Dr. Cordain’s presentation. It’s a 7 part series at a little over an hour in total but WELL worth the time. It’s puts a whole new perspective on “Eating Right”. Have a good day, this stuff is lots of fun once you get into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhkmDHLCUEs&feature=related
-Mark
Wow, thanks for the explaination. That makes me want to go see a movie. Maybe Hurt Locker or Bruno. Also, is there a list of the top inflammation foods to avoid? I just got my MRI back and I have a herniated disk from not maintaining the curve in my lower back in the bottom of heavy back squats. The doctor has me on NSAIDs, yeah yeah I know, tissue repair. I’d like to see what i can do nutritionally to reduce inflammation. I ordered some Kirkland Fish Oil and I have been staying pretty paleo. I’d really like to focus more on reducing inflammation with insulin control a close second. The Byers and Friends blogs are really starting to become a top notch nutrition reference. Right up there with Marks Daily Apple and Robb Wolf. So good.
Hey Marshall, from what I understand and can assimilate here are the main inflammatory foods to avoid for either their anti-nutrient or insulin spiking properties:
1. Wheat including oats, barley, and rye to name a few. Basically if you need a machine or grinding stone to process it, you probably want to stay away from it.
2. Legumes including beans and peanuts. The interesting thing here is that beans might be safe if they’re prepared properly, i.e. soaking. According to stuff I learned from Stephen over at Whole Health Source, soaking beans overnight in water or with some baking soda will allow the bean to break down it’s own phytic acid so that you can digest it without problems. Does that mean that it won’t leak through your gut, I would guess yes as if you’re able to assimilate a nutrient then it shouldn’t cause a problem.
3. Nightshades (tomatoes,sweet and hot peppers, eggplant, potatoes)
4. Dairy (not butter, ghee, heavy cream – these are basically just fat) – Not only does dairy spike insulin without spiking glucose, the casein protein within dairy can sneak through the gut when it is paired with either wheat, tomato or legumes.
5. Sugar/HFCS – there’s just nothing good about this stuff when taken in high quantities, some here and there is probably ok but a 20 oz Coke, very bad idea
So in general, eat a diet of meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, no sugar. I think I’ve heard that somewhere before. In regards to fish oil, good stuff there. I’m currently taking high doses of the stuff to help reverse my own insulin insensitivity, still have my midsection tire (not a mac truck one anymore but it’s still there). I’m dosing at 0.08427 g per pound of bodyweight because that’s what Robb Wolf is taking right now and it’s easy to just do what he does because he’s much smarter than I. (from RobbWolf.com: I started to lean out again, especially when I upped my fish oil to about 15g/day (Kirkland brand)…I’m about 178lbs but below 10% BF at this point.) So this means that I’m pouring 4 tbsp of Cod Liver Oil into a glass of water every night. Seems like a lot but I feel great so I can’t complain. As an aside, I can relate with the back issues. I herniated my own L 4-5 disc back in high school. The doc opted not to do surgery because of my age. I still get nervous with heavy back squats and generally avoid them. I’d rather do lighter squats A2A with a slight pause at the bottom, just as effective in my opinion.
Lastly, some good blogs to follow on top of Mark’s Daily Apple and Robb Wolf.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://www.paleonu.com/
Marshall, I’m actually working on a simple “here’s what to do when stuff won’t stop hurting” list, but I’ll give you my key points for now:
1. Eat more vegetables. No, not because kale will cure your tendonitis… or will it? More veggies = a more alkaline effect on your body = less chronic disease and inflammation. Also, a large volume of fresh vegetables tends to “crowd out” some poorer quality food choices like grains and processed junk.
2. Drink more water. No, not juice. No, not iced tea. No, not Crystal Light. Water.
3. Cut out the grains. Entirely. Reintroduce some if you feel that you absolutely need to after 30 days, and see how you feel.
4. Cut out the dairy. See #4.
5. Start taking a fish oil supplement, at a dose of 0.75-1.0g per 10 pounds of body weight. Check the label to make sure there are no “filler” oils or extra gelatin. Since there are different “strengths” of fish oil, you can do a little math and aim for that 0.75-1.0g dose of the total of EPA + DHA. It’s a range, not a precise dosage.
6. Experiment with removing nightshades from your diet. It’s not the highest priority change to make, but if you’ve done the previous things with absolute dedication and feel like you need more fine-tuning, try it. Nightshades include white potatoes (not sweet potatoes), tomatoes, tobacco, sweet and hot peppers (including cayenne and paprika), and eggplant.
7. I’ve not experimented with it myself, but I’ve read that 1/2 to 1 ounce per day of apple cider vinegar and/or fresh lemon juice can help to moderate an acidic environment in your body, but this is out of my realm of experience.
In response to your comment about “insulin control” and inflammation, it is my understanding that controlling inflammation in the body helps to control insulin levels, but… it’s unclear whether controlling insulin levels directly impacts your inflammatory state. Cart or the horse… Either way, though, you want both less inflammation and less spikes in insulin levels. So, eat strict Paleo for a while, add some fish oil, maybe pull out nightshades, and see what happens. Hope this helps.
Dallas
And… Mark, thanks for your thorough responses. Good stuff.
Peppers huh? I’ve been eating green, red, orange, and yellow bell peppers and counting that as paleo/good. Not to mention Poblano, Jalapeno, and Serrano chiles here and there? What makes hot peppers bad? Is it something about the capsaicin levels in the hot peppers? Or is it that all peppers are to be used sparingly?
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/01/06/nightshades/
Actually, I found an interesting Nightshades article here. I’ll give it a shot.
Good find Marshall, Fitness Spotlight is a great resource. They have some great stuff on IF, not that we’re going in that direction but it’s just good to understand why you don’t have to eat every three hours. When it comes to nightshades, I think it’s more of an individual thing. Wheat, I don’t think anyone should eat it. Nightshades here and there, might not be too bad. As always, use the ole “give it a shot” approach. Take them out for 30 days and then go get yourself some spicy nachos and see how you do. Have a good weekend.
So no one has any insights on dairy induced inflammation in young babies that only drink milk?
Hey Brett,
Just looking at babies where their only source of nutrition is breast milk, then I would say that there is no basis for excess inflammation. As Dr. Cordain has only seen dairy be a problem when paired with other adjuvents (I think that’s the word but just insert wheat, tomato, or legume) in regards to gut issues, so we’re good there. Then in regards to the high levels of insulin that milk gives, I think a baby would put that to good use as they grow at an much faster rate compared to children who are post weaning (about 3 to 4 years old in some cultures), so insulin spikes in babies and insulin spikes in non-babies are apples and oranges to me. I don’t know much about baby formula but hopefully it’s not just corn starch and soy protein…
Thanks Mark. That makes a lot of sense about babies not having nightshades in their diet and thus avoiding gut inflamation.
Dallas said, “Start taking a fish oil supplement, at a dose of 0.75-1.0g per 10 pounds of body weight”
and i said – what? for real? i have fish oil pills that are 1 gram each [carlson brand pure cod liver oil] and are huge. the jar says take 1 daily. at Dallas’ dosage, i would need to choke down 14 of those mothers a day?
that seems like an excessive amount of pill popping. am i missing something here? am i taking the wrong kind of supplement?
Sammylou, good question. Quick answer: you’re taking a good fish oil, yes, but the dosage is what is often misunderstood. Robb Wolf recently made the “0.5-1.0g per 10 pounds of body weight” recommendation at a CrossFit Nutrition seminar I attended. Here’s a good link that should clarify fish oil dosage: http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6069
As far as capsules vs liquid, if you can find a liquid that you can take a teaspoon or two of, it’ll be a lot more cost-effective than capsules, and it saves the exhausting task of swallowing those capules
I’ve heard that Carlson’s makes a pretty palatable lemon-flavored fish oil (actually, I bought some of my own last night, so I’ll report back soon…). Hope this helps you understand the fish oil recommendations.
Dallas
On the fish/cod liver oil front, yeah the 0.5-1.0 g per 10# of bodyweight can be a lot of pills to throw down. For example, I follow Robb’s recommendation and do about 0.08 g per 10# so for me at 200#, that means 16g of EPA and/or DHA (we’re not talking fish oil count here, only the omega-3’s count). Rounding it out, I take 4 tbsp of Carlson’s Lemon Flavored Cod Liver Oil plus 4 Now Vitamins Double Strength Omega-3 pills every night. I started it last Tuesday and paired with Lo-Carb and High Fat/Protein (also Robb’s recommendation) and I have started to lean out some (visually and on the measurements). So I’m going to keep this level until someone says to me that I’m too lean, then I’ll cut it down to 0.4 g per 10#. By the way, Robb’s shake (coconut milk + water + unsweetened cocoa powder + chocolate whey) is incredible! Really something to look forward to after a tough WOD. Dallas, hopefully you’re happy with your CLO. It’s pretty good and if I didn’t have that, I don’t know how I would get my Omega-3’s. I just ordered the Orange flavor, I’ll keep you updated.
Regarding Almond Milk – You can make your own by soaking 1 cup of almonds in water overnight, rinsing them and then blending with a pinch of sea salt, 2-3 dates, and 1 litre of water. Strain through muslin and keep in the fridge. It may not be ideal for those on minimal carbs, but is a better option to processed food.